Kriegssprache : Heer vs U.S. Army

[Knacker]

Schönen guten Tag an alle,

This post will be done in English, as I thought it would be interesting to compare some basic infantry commands at the Squad (Gruppe) and Platoon (Zug) level with those in the U.S. Military. This will not only be a study in global warfare tactics but also in linguistics !

When conducting a fighting withdrawal (zurückkämpfen) as an Infantryman in the U.S. Army, a Squad leader (Gruppenführer) would give the order to  "Break Contact !" followed by a direction "Left !" "Right !" or "Rear !". His squad would then conduct a fighting withdrawal, using fire and movement (feuer und bewegung) and bounding (sprungen), in the direction that was ordered. This is a way to maintain a high volume of fire while simultaneously withdrawing from enemy contact.

Can anyone provide the equivalent Heer command for "Break Contact !" or provide additional information on this type of action ?

Danke schon mal für Eure Hilfe

[F_K]

Hä?

Fighing withdrawal = kämpfend ausweichen (nicht "zurückkämpfen" - wo soll der Begriff herkommen?)

Break contact ist ein anderes Verfahren.

Die Unterschiede sind hoffentlich klar?!

[rando]

The equivalent order would be "Überschlagend links/ rechts ausweichen". The half-squad located in the direction in which the squad wants to withdraw to will provide cover fire whilst the other half will bound behind them.
When they have passed and are ready to provide cover fire they will call out "Steht" which literally means "Standing" but in this situation is better translated to "Set" meaning the half-squad initially providing cover fire may get up and bound to the next position, and so on and so forth.

[DeltaEcho]

withdrawal

The only meaning I know according to the US TLP is as  defensive task.

Defensive Tasks:

Area defense
Retrograde
Delay
Withdrawal
Withdrawal under pressure
Retirement

In the German Army we dont seperate between "Withdrawal
Withdrawal" and "under pressure", but the nearly the same.

"A planned retrograde operation in which a force in contact disengages from an enemy force and moves in a direction away from the enemy", in the German understanding, a retrograde can be also unplanned, but the rest of the translation is pretty accurate.

[F_K]

Ok, then start with questions do understand your inform requirements:

- do you understand German, at which level?
- do you understand German armed forces tactics, at which level?
- Are you trained in tactics / infantry tactics / SOPs, at which level? In which armed forces?

[Knacker]

Hä?

Fighing withdrawal = kämpfend ausweichen (nicht "zurückkämpfen" - wo soll der Begriff herkommen?)

Break contact ist ein anderes Verfahren.

Die Unterschiede sind hoffentlich klar?!

"zurückkampfen" erscheint in Heeres-Dienstvorschrift 130/2a - Ausbildungsvorschrift für die Infanterie, Die Schützenkompanie (1942). Ein sehr altes und veraltetes Dienstvorschrift, aber interessant zu sehen, wie sich die Taktik seitdem entwickelt hat.

Kann jemand eine aktualisierte Version dieses Dienstvorschriften vorschlagen?

[Knacker]

Hä?

Fighing withdrawal = kämpfend ausweichen (nicht "zurückkämpfen" - wo soll der Begriff herkommen?)

Break contact ist ein anderes Verfahren.

Die Unterschiede sind hoffentlich klar?!

"zurückkampfen" erscheint in Heeres-Dienstvorschrift 130/2a - Ausbildungsvorschrift für die Infanterie, Die Schützenkompanie (1942). Ein sehr altes und veraltetes Dienstvorschrift, aber interessant zu sehen, wie sich die Taktik seitdem entwickelt hat.

Kann jemand eine aktualisierte Version dieses Dienstvorschriften vorschlagen?

The equivalent order would be "Überschlagend links/ rechts ausweichen". The half-squad located in the direction in which the squad wants to withdraw to will provide cover fire whilst the other half will bound behind them.
When they have passed and are ready to provide cover fire they will call out "Steht" which literally means "Standing" but in this situation is better translated to "Set" meaning the half-squad initially providing cover fire may get up and bound to the next position, and so on and so forth.

So Überschlagend links - ausweichen !, Überschlagend rechts - ausweichen !, and  Überschlagend zurück ! are all commands that are actually given ?

[F_K]

.. I am an quite experienced soldier - but Wehrmacht Dienstvorschriften are even far beyond my horizon.

For actual orders you need to understand the structure of the actual infantry squad (FschJg is different as Jg or PzGren (if fighting without AFV)) and terrain, enemy and concept of operation.

Please answer my questions - which guys are looking at Wehrmacht stuff?

[LwPersFw]

Und von mir eine unmissverständliche Warnung in Deutsch

Jede Form von weiteren Diskussionen in Bezug auf die Wehrmacht führen zur Löschung des Threads !

Wer das will ... sucht sich ein anderes Forum.